Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_mi_ea/carter_israel_28

“Former President Carter said Monday that the Islamic group Hamas was willing to accept the Jewish state as a “neighbor next door,””

“seven rockets were fired on Israel from Hamas-ruled Gaza Monday, including one that wounded a 4-year-old boy”

“And a leader of the Hamas military wing, which carried out a twin suicide bombing on the Gaza border Saturday, said his group would step up attacks against Israel in coming days.”

“Also, a leader of the Hamas military wing said attacks on Israel would intensify.”

[sarcasm]I know that I fire rockets at my next door neighbors all the time, and they just laugh it off. They really enjoyed the bomb I planted in their grill too. We are great friends though.[/sarcasm]

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

Yes, yes he is.

And even now that Hamas has admitted they were lying, he has yet to apologize and say he was wrong. Nope, he wasn’t wrong, everyone else is for not giving in the Hamas demands that change weekly.

Thanks Jimah! I appreciate that you have helped “legitimatize” Hamas. Who are you going to go talk to next? Osama? Maybe tell America all we have to do is convert to Osama’s version of Islam so he doesn’t haver to kill us?

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

sarcasm]I know that I fire rockets at my next door neighbors all the time, and they just laugh it off. They really enjoyed the bomb I planted in their grill too. We are great friends though.[/sarcasm]

Now for this to be REALLY funny you need to use almost every dime you have to build and launch those rockets, then claim it’s your neighbors fault that you’re broke and starving.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

When I read this post, and then remembered you were being serious, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I just hope the Palestinians can outlast the tyranny of Israel, and if not I’m sure their holocaust will give maybe some reason for Palestine to exist.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

What are Israel supposed to do? They’re a small nation stuck amongst a whole load of hostile states with neighbours who are constantly chucking bombs at them. The weaponry available to these terrorists is increasingly sophisticated and by the time Iran is properly nuclear it’s likely to include the kind of weaponry that wipes out Israel forever. They have to take strong action and whilst it’s harsh, it really is a case of ‘them or us’. This is the Palestinians’ fault.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

Shall I count the ways this is stupid and wrong?
1.) Palestinians inflict far more tyranny than they recieve. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others are all committed to violence and destruction. If you want to make the argument that these groups are not representative of the Palestinian people as a whole and the average Palestinian is not a millitant, then you need to realize the average Israeli is not active-duty IDF. Yet those average Israelis are still getting shot at and blown up.
2.) There is no holocaust taking place. Israel has more than enough firepower to completely anihilate the Palestinians if it so desires to. The fact that this has not taken place is a firm indication that there is no such desire.
3.) States are not born out of pity. Either there are prior reasons for a Palestinian state (rooted in history, culture, religion, etc.) or there are not. To expect Israel to provide reasons for such a state is ridiculous.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

Let’s see, Israel should do what with Hamas and Gaza?

Give them everything they want?

What would that give Israel? A larger area to destroy when Extremists start launching rockets/suicide bombers into their now SMALLER country. Yeah….

I’m sorry, if the countries that lost area during that “little” war remember, there’s something called “right of conquest”. I know it’s out of fad now. But as I see it, there are no “disputed territories”. Israel won them fair and square with blood and guile.

The Palestinians constantly complain about their lack of supplies/fuel. They’d have a lot more fuel if Hamas didn’t siphon off much of it to make bombs. And they would have a much better life if they didn’t support terrorists and allow them to us their children as human shields.

Oh, and a final thing; Using civilians as shields is a war crime. When they are killed in an attack, those that USED them as shields are responsible for the atrocity. Under international law.

When I read this post, and then remembered you were being serious, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I just hope the Palestinians can outlast the tyranny of Israel, and if not I’m sure their holocaust will give maybe some reason for Palestine to exist.

What’s wrong about my post? It’s true. Hamas can spend money to train fighters in Iran, and to buy guns and ammo to smuggle into Gaza, but they can’t use that money to buy food? They can spend days/weeks digging tunnels to Egypt, but they can’t till gardens, or operate schools?

I know they can afford watches, that’s the only way they can know to launch rockets at the times of the day when there are better chances that children are going/coming from school.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

2.) There is no holocaust taking place. Israel has more than enough firepower to completely anihilate the Palestinians if it so desires to. The fact that this has not taken place is a firm indication that there is no such desire.

Exactly! According to census information there are MORE Palestinians living in the “occupied territories” now then when they became “occupied”.

To count as a “holocaust” there would have to be LESS, actually MUCH less.

Try looking up the Jewish Holocaust. That’s a rather glaring example of a real one.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

I would like to point out that based on a lot of what I’ve seen and heard, it seems like most people on both sides of the Israel/Palestine issue are rational individuals, and would be OK with two coexisting states. The leadership is not OK with this, particularly on the Palestinian side.

I think until the Palestinian governments cedes to the will of the moderates and cracks down on extremism and terrorism, there’s really no hope for peace. Until Palestinian organizations stop their terrorist actions, Israel has no reason to stop defending itself. The real tragedy is that innocent civilians on both sides get caught in the middle.

That’s my two cents.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

I would also add to what’s been said that there are Palestinian (Israeli Arab) members of the Knesset, Israel’s parliment and that some of these politicians and their parties are anti-Zionist in orientation. Again, if Israel was committed to oppressing or destroying the Palestinians, that would not be happening.

That being said, I’m not opposed to the idea of a Palestinian state forming in West Bank and Gaza. I think such a state, resource-poor as it is, would have a hard time remaining viable. I also believe such a state would not be able to co-exist wit Israel as long as groups like Hamas remain a political power.

My solution of preference would be a single, secular state with equal legal status for all citizens and strong constitutional protections for religious freedom. However, there seems little chance of that happening, especially when there are rockets being launched with alarming frequency.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

It’s not surprising my post was met with such venom–sorry I’ve been aloof. After all we have people from the Us, Uk, and the board has a close relationship with someone from Israel. And I won’t deny the fact that Palestine does commit acts of terrorism—something that Carter is well aware of.

But I can plain see there’s nothing to “debate” here, espcially when one of the rebuttal posts calls you stupid right off the bat,and I used the word holocaust because that was the sentiment expressed by deputy defense minister Matan Vilnai.

As for my final word I’ll leave you with what Jimmy Carter has to say about his trip to Gaza and the Middle East:

A counterproductive Washington policy in recent years has been to boycott and punish political factions or governments that refuse to accept United States mandates. This policy makes difficult the possibility that such leaders might moderate their policies.

Two notable examples are in Nepal and the Middle East. About 12 years ago, Maoist guerrillas took up arms in an effort to overthrow the monarchy and change the nation’s political and social life. Although the United States declared the revolutionaries to be terrorists, the Carter Center agreed to help mediate among the three major factions: the royal family, the old-line political parties and the Maoists.

In 2006, six months after the oppressive monarch was stripped of his powers, a cease-fire was signed. Maoist combatants laid down their arms and Nepalese troops agreed to remain in their barracks. Our center continued its involvement and nations — though not the United States — and international organizations began working with all parties to reconcile the dispute and organize elections.

The Maoists are succeeding in achieving their major goals: abolishing the monarchy, establishing a democratic republic and ending discrimination against untouchables and others whose citizenship rights were historically abridged. After a surprising victory in the April 10 election, Maoists will play a major role in writing a constitution and governing for about two years. To the United States, they are still terrorists.

On the way home from monitoring the Nepalese election, I, my wife and my son went to Israel. My goal was to learn as much as possible to assist in the faltering peace initiative endorsed by President Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Although I knew that official United States policy was to boycott the government of Syria and leaders of Hamas, I did not receive any negative or cautionary messages about the trip, except that it might be dangerous to visit Gaza.

The Carter Center had monitored three Palestinian elections, including one for parliamentary seats in January 2006. Hamas had prevailed in several municipal contests, gained a reputation for effective and honest administration and did surprisingly well in the legislative race, displacing the ruling party, Fatah. As victors, Hamas proposed a unity government with Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah as president and offered to give key ministries to Fatah, including that of foreign affairs and finance.

Hamas had been declared a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel, and the elected Palestinian government was forced to dissolve. Eventually, Hamas gained control of Gaza, and Fatah is “governing” the Israeli-dominated West Bank. Opinion polls show Hamas steadily gaining popularity. Since there can be no peace with Palestinians divided, we at the Carter Center believed it important to explore conditions allowing Hamas to be brought peacefully back into the discussions. (A recent poll of Israelis, who are familiar with this history, showed 64 percent favored direct talks between Israel and Hamas.)

Similarly, Israel cannot gain peace with Syria unless the Golan Heights dispute is resolved. Here again, United States policy is to ostracize the Syrian government and prevent bilateral peace talks, contrary to the desire of high Israeli officials.

We met with Hamas leaders from Gaza, the West Bank and Syria, and after two days of intense discussions with one another they gave these official responses to our suggestions, intended to enhance prospects for peace:

• Hamas will accept any agreement negotiated by Mr. Abbas and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel provided it is approved either in a Palestinian referendum or by an elected government. Hamas’s leader, Khaled Meshal, has reconfirmed this, although some subordinates have denied it to the press.

• When the time comes, Hamas will accept the possibility of forming a nonpartisan professional government of technocrats to govern until the next elections can be held.

• Hamas will also disband its militia in Gaza if a nonpartisan professional security force can be formed.

• Hamas will permit an Israeli soldier captured by Palestinian militants in 2006, Cpl. Gilad Shalit, to send a letter to his parents. If Israel agrees to a list of prisoners to be exchanged, and the first group is released, Corporal Shalit will be sent to Egypt, pending the final releases.

• Hamas will accept a mutual cease-fire in Gaza, with the expectation (not requirement) that this would later include the West Bank.

• Hamas will accept international control of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt, provided the Egyptians and not the Israelis control closing the gates.

In addition, Syria’s president, Bashir al-Assad, has expressed eagerness to begin negotiations with Israel to end the impasse on the Golan Heights. He asks only that the United States be involved and that the peace talks be made public.

Through more official consultations with these outlawed leaders, it may yet be possible to revive and expedite the stalemated peace talks between Israel and its neighbors. In the Middle East, as in Nepal, the path to peace lies in negotiation, not in isolation.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

How about if Hamas just stops the firing of rockets at Israel? Or the suicide bombing of civilians? Or the car bombings? Or any of the violent actions that they sponsor, or support.

The path to peace is through the ending of the violence.

"But I can plain see there’s nothing to “debate” here, espcially when one of the rebuttal posts calls you stupid right off the bat,and I used the word holocaust because that was the sentiment expressed by deputy defense minister Matan Vilnai. "

Interestingly, it is debated what Vilnai meant when he used the word “shoah.” Reuters translated it as holocaust. As you know translating words can be problematical, what is said and what it is translated into may not be the same.

‘Israel’s deputy defense minister Matan Vilnai told Army Radio: “The more Qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they will bring upon themselves a bigger ‘shoah’ because we will use all our might to defend ourselves.”’

So did he mean holocaust or disaster, in context of the sentence disaster makes more sense.

The attacks and quotes I posted in the first post were while Carter was there. Hamas wouldn’t even stop the attacks while he was there.

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

Also, assume for a second that the Hamas leadership accepts conditions for peace. What’s to stop the rank-and-file from continuing terrorist attacks?

Can Jimmy Carter really be as stupid as he appears?

Sorry, Hamas came out RIGHT after Carter said they would agree to whatever the voters agreed to and said:

“They said they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders if approved by Palestinians … Even though Hamas might disagree with some terms of the agreement,” Carter said.

“It means that Hamas will not undermine Abbas’s efforts to negotiate an agreement and Hamas will accept an agreement if the Palestinians support it in a free vote,” he said.

However, Hamas said Monday it won’t necessarily accept the results of any Palestinian referendum on peace with Israel.

Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas spokesman said Carter’s comments “do not mean that Hamas is going to accept the result of the referendum.”

—So again whe have terrorists TRYING to seem like they really don’t want to be terrorists. But then a few hours later they can’t stand the idea that they are agreeing to stop killing Jews so they recant.

And about the Egyptian "truce:

" Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal said Saturday that the group would accept an Egyptian-proposed ceasefire with Israel but it would be a “tactic” In the group’s struggle with the Jewish state.

The Damascus-based Mashaal said in an interview with al-Jazeera television that Egypt had proposed a six-month truce between the Hamas rulers of Gaza and Israel. He said his group was ready to cooperate but added: “It is a tactic in conducting the struggle. … It is normal for any resistance that operates in its people’s interest … to sometimes escalate, other times retreat a bit…the battle is to be run this way and Hamas is known for that,” he said. “In 2003, there was a cease-fire and then the operations were resumed.”

Hamas has NO intent to make peace with Israel. They still OPENLY admit to their core belief that Israel must be destroyed.

Every time Israel gives in to peace demands at summits the Pali’s ask for MORE! Israel compromises right and left, but the Pali’s REFUse to, then when they don’t get 100 percent of their demands they walk away and say it was “Israel’s fault” for not giving them everything they demanded…

Your post here is being received so badly because you blatantly ignore WHY Israel acts the way they do towards Gaza.

Israel left Gaza as part of the peace process. what did it get them? An area where rickets and mortars are fired DAILY into their country.

Israel opened up several road blocks in the west bank, what did that get them? Just hours later a terrorist from the west bank was killed after he attacked 2 Israel’s.

Israel sends petrol to Gaza, what happens? Hamas siphons off large chunks of it, then uses it to make bombs. AND Hamas goes to all the stations that SELL the petrol and tell them they now have to give HAMAS a large chunk of the sales. Boy, that’s really humanitarian.

Israel watches as rockets/mortars are launched next to schools and hospitals and does NOT engage because they DON’T want to kill civilians. What happens? Terrorists don’t wear uniforms, so when they are killed in tactical strikes often they are labeled as “innocents”. Or even more HEINOUS, Hamas sends out local teens to grab to rocket launchers/ mortar tubes, knowing Israel may kill those that go out to get them. (That’s ANOTHER Hamas-committed war crime if you’re counting)

Sorry, all Carter did here was give Hamas exposure, and make himself look like a fool. And show they are nothing but thugs and murders.

Which sadly I would expect as that’s what west bank and Gazan parents teach their children from a young age. That Jews are evil, hook nosed, short mongrels that should be exterminated.

You can’t grow up a functioning and CARING human being if you’re taught that your neighbors are less than animals, and that your own life should be lost killing as many innocents as possible.